#156641  by wisconsindead
 Fri May 19, 2017 7:48 am
I'm in the process of picking up some JBL K140's. I'm not entirely sure what to do for cab design. I plan on just doing 1x15 for now to keep things a bit more modular. I thought about going the Hard Truckers route but I wasn't all that convinced after talking to Glenn that that was the route, and the prices were pretty high. I'm considering LDS but I also wasn't that convinced after talking to Don about designing the cab, but the prices were much better. Any thoughts? Ultimately I am trying to replicate the sound of Phil's earlier cabs, while recognizing that there are probably some things worthy of improving with respect to the cabs they used back then.

Cheers.
 #156664  by pablomago
 Sat May 20, 2017 7:47 pm
Find or have someone reproduce a late '60's Sunn 2 x 15" (or 1 x 15") cab. That's what a lot of SF bands used for bass before Alembic/Hard Truckers started building cabs. (Phil, Jack Casady) I have some pictures if you're interested of how they're built, though I don't have actual plans. Shoot me an e-mail (pmhoneycutt AT gmail DOT com).
 #156665  by zambiland
 Sat May 20, 2017 11:03 pm
I have a Sunn 200S and I-40 (half a 200S) and I'm not all that impressed with them. For my money, a Bag End II, if you can find one, is a much better bet. The 200S port is too big, making the low end very indistinct compared to the Bag End. Another Bag End option is this one, which I am very tempted by, despite its greater weight: https://reverb.com/item/2572036-used-ba ... er-cabinet

Or, have one made. You can do it cheaper than HT or LDS. It's a simple box. Here are my notes on dimensions from various sources:

Wall Of Sound;
30" wide
25 1/2 " deep
20" high

Alembic A-15
25 3/4 " wide
21 1/2 " deep
20"high

Bagend
26" wide
22" deep
18”high

And then there is this from Rick Turner:

"When I worked up a lot of the Wall of Sound speaker cabinet dimensions, I used the cube root of 2 (1.25992105) as the multiplier to determine the ratio of depth to width to height of the cabinets. Take your smallest dimension and multiply it by that, then take that result and multiply it again by that constant. The idea (for better or worse...) was to spread any standing waves out equal distant from one another in the audio spectrum. There are other formulae that some folks use...Golden Mean, etc.
We also used heavy rug padding with horse hair in it to damp internal reflections.
We went with closed boxes because the transient response is better than with bass reflex designs, and the deep low end extension is better way down there, though they start rolling off a bit sooner than the bass reflex. But then when stacked in the tall array, that low end comes off better because it's better directed."

What's key is having a big enough box.
 #156866  by wisconsindead
 Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:11 am
Hey guys. I ended up forgetting about this post. I ordered a cab through Don at LDS. I have two K140's, I only ordered a cabinet for 1 of them. So we shall see how it sounds.
 #160139  by zambiland
 Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:31 pm
MattMan wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:55 pm
How did the K140s sound for the bass? Doing some research on behalf of my bass player.
K140s are my favorite 15 for bass. They are susceptible to being blown up more easily than modern 15s and require a decent size cabinet to generate a good low end, but they have a wonderful tone. The Sunn 200S is a classic.

They are efficient enough that in if in a good size cabinet, they can generate a pretty good amount of sound. Remember that back in the Fillmore days (think LIVE/Dead) Phil was using 4 200S's with 4 Showman (essentially 85 watts each) to fill the whole room with no PA support. I used a 200S (with two 16 ohm drivers for a total 4 ohm load) at an outdoor show, powered by a Crest Powerlight 3.0, and I thought for sure my sound didn't carry but the sound guy said he barely had me in the PA with about 1500 to 2000 people cruising around.
MattMan liked this
 #160157  by wisconsindead
 Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:39 pm
I personally can't really get my K140 cab to sound how I would like it to. I need to put in more time, but there is something in the mids/upper mids that I don't really care for/can't dial out. IME with it, it took me further from sounding like Phil compared to using my fearful 12/6 cab (flat/monitor style cabinet). I have used an eden wt400 and an alembic F1X with these cabs.

Now, zambiland sounds closer to Phil than I do, imo. And I really like the sound of his rig using a K140. I would like to get closer but I can't really seem to get there. I basically follow his footsteps, but for this one I am kind of at a loss.
MattMan liked this
 #160158  by zambiland
 Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:33 pm
wisconsindead wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:39 pm
I personally can't really get my K140 cab to sound how I would like it to. I need to put in more time, but there is something in the mids/upper mids that I don't really care for/can't dial out. IME with it, it took me further from sounding like Phil compared to using my fearful 12/6 cab (flat/monitor style cabinet). I have used an eden wt400 and an alembic F1X with these cabs.

Now, zambiland sounds closer to Phil than I do, imo. And I really like the sound of his rig using a K140. I would like to get closer but I can't really seem to get there. I basically follow his footsteps, but for this one I am kind of at a loss.
I just want to say that what you hear of my sound is the direct signal. Mic'ed cabs rarely make to the recordings.

These days I'm using an MAS 210 Flex. They are stupid expensive but I found someone selling one for crazy cheap and decided to check it out. It sounds great. Definitely hifi and more controlled in the low end than the fEARful line.

http://www.masoundworks.com/manage.numo ... alog&cid=4

Another cabinet I've tried recently that I really liked was the Epifani 310. I gather they don't make them any more. Really, clear, present, and smooth.

At this point, I still hate speakers.
MattMan liked this
 #160163  by wisconsindead
 Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:18 am
zambiland wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:33 pm
wisconsindead wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:39 pm
I personally can't really get my K140 cab to sound how I would like it to. I need to put in more time, but there is something in the mids/upper mids that I don't really care for/can't dial out. IME with it, it took me further from sounding like Phil compared to using my fearful 12/6 cab (flat/monitor style cabinet). I have used an eden wt400 and an alembic F1X with these cabs.

Now, zambiland sounds closer to Phil than I do, imo. And I really like the sound of his rig using a K140. I would like to get closer but I can't really seem to get there. I basically follow his footsteps, but for this one I am kind of at a loss.
I just want to say that what you hear of my sound is the direct signal. Mic'ed cabs rarely make to the recordings.

These days I'm using an MAS 210 Flex. They are stupid expensive but I found someone selling one for crazy cheap and decided to check it out. It sounds great. Definitely hifi and more controlled in the low end than the fEARful line.

http://www.masoundworks.com/manage.numo ... alog&cid=4

Another cabinet I've tried recently that I really liked was the Epifani 310. I gather they don't make them any more. Really, clear, present, and smooth.

At this point, I still hate speakers.
Interesting! Still using the F2B? What is your chain prior to the cabinet?