How Do I Get Garcia's Reverb sound (of 80's & 90's)

How Do I Get Garcia's Reverb sound (of 80's & 90's)

Postby SongHawk » Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:12 pm

Can someone please tell me an absolutely definite way I can get the wonderful reverb sound that Garcia had in the 80's and 90's? I've tried and tried. I've got good gear and a good guitar. The reverb is the most elusive thing for me. I purchased the unit he had in his rack and it did not sound anything like the reverb sound he got. Thanks.

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Re: How Do I Get Garcia's Reverb sound (of 80's & 90's)

Postby hippieguy1954 » Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:46 pm

Twin reverb nails it. Many are happy with alternatives such as the reverb in the SMS CTP etc.
What is the rest of the gear, settings, signal chain/path?
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Re: How Do I Get Garcia's Reverb sound (of 80's & 90's)

Postby williamsaut » Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:05 pm

I'd like to hear what others have to say about this as I've struggled over the years to really capture that reverb sound that your talking about. Specifically the solo in Tales of Yankee power off of the 1991 Double Live CD which has always blown me away. I've yet to see proof that Jerry used the Lexicon PCM60 outside the studio. I've looked around at some rig pics but never have seen it. The old A/DA 2FX he used for his chorus had the delay time and/or mix ran out to a pedal on the floor along with the Phase 100 speed knob I think. I'm also convinced that he used the MXR phase 100 or A/DA Chorus to augment his MXR dist+ at times to achieve what we here would consider Prototypical Garcia distortion sounds like what you'd here in a good live Alabama Getaway or Minglewood. I've heard and seen on videos, Jerry make delay time adjustments on the fly via the foot pedal with that characteristic detune in the process where he dials in the delay time to his liking and picking speed where the correct back-beat to his picking would really fill it out. This may be the key to what your talking about. I've tried this technique using the expression input on a Boss DD-7 to control the mix and "swell" the delay effect during my solo's to pretty good effect. His spring reverb did sound wonderful and close mic'd running through the PA would sound vastly different than anything we could reproduce in a bar setting IMO but when stacked with a delay or digital reverb like a lexicon could produce a wide array of reverb sounds. What reverb FX have you been trying out? With the right tweaking, a standard Delay pedal in front of the spring reverb in a Fender amp can get some pretty spacious sounds. As a side note and following a lead from someone here on this board, I've purchased a Catalinbread Talisman Modeling Plate reverb pedal and can say that the really short plate style reverb can really be used to great affect and I've only just started to play around with this pedal.

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Re: How Do I Get Garcia's Reverb sound (of 80's & 90's)

Postby hippieguy1954 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:05 am

williamsaut wrote: I've yet to see proof that Jerry used the Lexicon PCM60 outside the studio. I've looked around at some rig pics but never have seen it. The old A/DA 2FX he used for his chorus had the delay time and/or mix ran out to a pedal on the floor along with the Phase 100 speed knob I think. I'm also convinced that he used the MXR phase 100 or A/DA Chorus to augment his MXR dist+ at times to achieve what we here would consider Prototypical Garcia distortion sounds like what you'd here in a good live Alabama Getaway or Minglewood.


Jerry never used any chorus effect and as far as I know he never used Lexicon reverb either.
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Re: How Do I Get Garcia's Reverb sound (of 80's & 90's)

Postby Diggey » Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:47 am

I use a botique "tank" clone of a Fender 6G15 outboard Reverb Unit and it sounds amazingly good at bedroomish or smallish clubs volume. BUT it can get lost if in big rooms at lower settings and too dwelly and bottomless if cranked loud. Jerry was able to achieve some nature 'verb from venue size which when mixed with the amp verb or any reverb effect will be difficult to match exactly. But the tank gets close.

One caveat is no two reverb tanks are exactly the same either. Some are dryish and clicky and percussive with pick attack and some can get mushy and some can sound drippy.

Lastly, don't underestimate delay which can really help with that reverb as well. Fiddle with those knobs to blend.
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Re: How Do I Get Garcia's Reverb sound (of 80's & 90's)

Postby playingdead » Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:35 am

Sometimes you can find great reverbs in unexpected places, and digital has come a long way. I was in a local boutique guitar shop a couple month back and some guy was playing an old Tele into a Supro DualTone reissue amp and the reverb sounded awesome. (The amp did, too, so I bought it.) But the Supro did not have onboard reverb, they had a Mr. Black Eterna pedal in front of it. The Eterna is one of those crazy "shimmer" reverbs that you hear the Edge using with U2 ... not an appealing sound at all to me. But turn the "shimmer" knob all the way off and it's a killer spring reverb sound, plus you can vary the length as well as how wet the signal is. I bought the pedal, too. Expensive day.
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Re: How Do I Get Garcia's Reverb sound (of 80's & 90's)

Postby waldo041 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:03 am

I wish it was just as easy as buying a pedal and sticking it in front of or behind the preamp( some have better luck then others) but IMHO and only My Opinion, It takes more than just turning knobs. Jerry's reverb was dialed in by a guy (or guys) that knew and fully understood the reverb circuit of the Twin Reverb. A good pan with the correct Transducer impedance's is a big part of it. His sound did not just come by luck of the draw or by picking the best out of the lot, although the latter is where to start. It was executed to perfection and that is why it is so elusive.

Those that have tried pedals, digital, analog or tube circuits to include myself, have generally only been happy with the results. No one has come forward and said "That's It", at least none that i have seen pertaining to this subject.

Image

Also, Jerry's ADA 2FX was modified by Healy to have the Wet/Dry Mix and Multiplier potentiometers remote out to foot pedals. You will here this first right here, but in his 90's rack the 2FX was not in his OBEL. It was placed in The Trio's effects loop, before the Tubeworks Reverb, ALWAYS in the circuit. Foot down was Dry, so it would have went:

end of 92 - 93 trio>ada 2fx>tubeworks tube reverb>ada cab simulator or mc2300>JBL's or other.
sometime in 93 - 95 trio>ada 2fx>tubeworks tube reverb>sound research ELF/ Reality Amplifier.
https://www.mickeyhart.net/news/all-abo ... -baby-5211

Just to note, not sure most know that the 2FX also has gain available at the input of the unit and the output of the unit, so when he used it Dry that was another couple Gain stages he had available to tweak in the circuit.

Image

Only my opinion though, other may feel he did it or they should do it another way and they may be right and I may be wrong, I have been before and will again.

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Re: How Do I Get Garcia's Reverb sound (of 80's & 90's)

Postby hippieguy1954 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:23 pm

Great info, Waldo, some of which I certainly was not aware of. Thanks for sharing!

I'm not sure I'd say "this is it" about my reverb, but I'm a little more than just happy. Id say very happy and very close, thanks to Waldo.

I would also add that the illusive but recurring subject of volume and room size comes into the equation as well. When I can really open things up to the proper enormous volume where the McIntosh is clipping and the speakers are flopping, the reverb also reacts very differently than at lower volumes. I'll get some new clips up next week.
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Re: How Do I Get Garcia's Reverb sound (of 80's & 90's)

Postby TI4-1009 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:37 pm

Nice info Waldo- thanks.

I just replaced the tank on my Vox AC15C1, this article was very helpful:

https://www.amplifiedparts.com/tech_corner/spring_reverb_tanks_explained_and_compared
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Re: How Do I Get Garcia's Reverb sound (of 80's & 90's)

Postby Tennessee Jedi » Sat Dec 12, 2015 6:59 am

I'm not that techy and modern digital stuff is so good it fools my ear every time
My fav verb is spring and I love my 76 Twins
I gig w the SMS though
I like it fine but another local Jerry player played my rig at one of our gigs and thought it sounded awful !
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Re: How Do I Get Garcia's Reverb sound (of 80's & 90's)

Postby cripeowner » Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:28 am

Tennessee Jedi wrote:I'm not that techy and modern digital stuff is so good it fools my ear every time
My fav verb is spring and I love my 76 Twins
I gig w the SMS though
I like it fine but another local Jerry player played my rig at one of our gigs and thought it sounded awful !
:D


Jeez nice guy!
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Re: How Do I Get Garcia's Reverb sound (of 80's & 90's)

Postby hippieguy1954 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:30 am

He was probably jealous :lol:
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Re: How Do I Get Garcia's Reverb sound (of 80's & 90's)

Postby aiq » Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:14 pm

Kimock has related he played thru Jerry's rig and could not bond with it.

I am interested in the more psychedelic tones the new reverb pedals can produce, I have ordered a Specular2. Can't wait to try it!
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Re: How Do I Get Garcia's Reverb sound (of 80's & 90's)

Postby MRiley99 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 5:54 pm

I've got a Digitech Supernatural that I like alot. I recently got an SMS JG and have been switching the reverb up every couple days between the stock reverb, a Digitech RV7, EHX Cathedral, Lexicon LXP1, and the Supernatural trying to figure out which one I like best. Not looking to replicate Jerry's tone exactly, just using it as a base I guess. The spring mode on the Supernatural is the frontrunner at this point. It also has several other ambient type modes, some with modulation, and the plate setting is good as well. Here's a comparison between it and actual Fender spring reverb: https://youtu.be/5GDsGZpJ5rM
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Re: How Do I Get Garcia's Reverb sound (of 80's & 90's)

Postby waldo041 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:24 pm

aiq wrote:Kimock has related he played thru Jerry's rig and could not bond with it.


This is a misunderstanding. Kimock NEVER played through Jerry's actual rig! How do I know, because I asked him. He has played through a non Jerrified Fender Twin Reverb into Kimocks McIntosh Mc2300 (Keith Godchaux's) into some Jbl E120's. That is the rig he did not bond with.


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